Pets at home

[Morpheus_UK]

They have recently restarted to keep exotics, the phasmids are normal looking species such as pink wings, bud wings, plus the odd parachamorpha. They had no food and after about a week they still had the same dried up food, plus they are stupidly dear, £8 for to or £5 each:rolleyes:

[Ian]

Actually, a new pets at home has just opened up in Chippenham.
I was pretty impressed with the whole thing, exotic pet wise they had some hermit crabs which were in great condition, and some stick insects which were also pretty good.
Whether or not that's because the shop has just opened I'm not sure, but seemed to be okay with my experience there.

[kenza]

the pets at home near me was horrid what a shock i got when i looked in there housing the bramble leaves were crisp,dry as a bone,i spoke to them about it and they said new food was already placed in there :@ i will be going in again in a couple of days to see how things are going ill let you all know. i took some pics not too clear but you can still see i found some of what looked like newly hatched indian nymphs on the glass.

[kenza]

and the few pictures:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/362/photo0094cl5.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo0094cl5.jpg)


http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1200/photo0093xu6.th.jpg (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo0093xu6.jpg)


http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7669/photo0095oi2.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo0095oi2.jpg)

[Ian]

Wow, well that really does suprise me. Thanks for posting the photos Kenza, puts in more into perspective.
Maybe as time goes on things will go down hill at the newly opened one, who knows.
Certainly not looking to good though I must say...

[lele]

here in the states, of course, the only insects sold in stores are feeder insects for reptiles. Being new to phasmids I was amazed at recently reading on Sticktalk about your equivalent to our Humane Society (don't recall what it is called in UK) citing a shop with fines for conditions that Sticks were kept in! We can rarely get that sort of result for the reptiles! So it sounds to me that you do have some sort of recourse and an agency that will pay attention if notified. Can you contact them to put some pressure on these stores? It is so sad to see any living thing thing treated so poorly and then if people buy them as rescues the store just buys more knowing they can sell them. We are constantly seeing folks on the herp forums here wanting to "save" a chameleon or iguana or other herp (I have done it once myself with some little anoles before I realized the negative impact it can actually have in the long run) and how we try to dissuade them -as difficult as it is to "leave them behind :(

lele

[Ian]

Well to be honest with you, I don't think complaining to the shop will do anything other than get them to change the bramble to satisfy the customer.
Do you know what the body is that regulates the care of stick insects? I have never heard of this before. Certainly sounds like a step in the right direction.

[lele]

Ian,

I have kept several of the Sticktalk emails and actually found the one with the story. I pasted it here but left out the poster's name as I am not sure if that would be OK or not to include. As for the page on RSPCA's site for Phasmid care that he refers to: Pet care - Stick insects (http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RSPCA/RSPCARedirect&pg=FishAmphibiansandOthersPetCare&marker=1&articleId=1154077758994)

Hi,
Several times on Sticktalk I have seen people complaining about the conditions they have seen stick insects kept under in pet shops here in the UK. This week I had a similar experience at my local branch of 'Pets At Home', it was the usual sorry story, a cage of dried up food plant, no sign of any moisture & dead or obviously dehydrated stick isects slowly starving to death.
Rather than talking to the manager there & then I thought I would try a call to the RSPCA.
I didn't know how seriously the RSPCA would take the welfare of inscets but was encouraged when I found a page on their website dedicated to the care of stick insects so rang & reported the shop. They took my details & a description of the conditions I had seen, they said they would send an inspector to check it out. I got a call yesterday to say they had visited & ageed that conditions were unacceptable & told the manager to correct the situation immediately, instructing him to provide fresh foodplant & a spray of water, they also told me that they would visit again in a couple of weeks to make sure proper care was being continued.
So I thought I would share this experience with you as I was very pleasantly surprised with the RSPCA & would encourage any of you to report any suspected animal neglect or suffering you may come across in pet shops as they do take it seriously & act on it.
I'm guessing the last thing a pet shop wants on their premised is a uniformed RSPCA officer as it doesn't say much for their animal care to any customers who may be present at the time!

Nice to know they responded.

[Ian]

Thanks for sharing that lele.
Well, I'm most suprised the RSPCA actually responded to that! We have tried contacting them in the past regards domestic pet issues, and found them somewhat unreliable.
But this does sound like they handled it excellently.

[Morpheus_UK]

Hey werent the RSPCA going to ban exotics over here?

[Ian]

There was talk of it, but I don't think they were ever going to get the rights to enforce it.

[mjr1990]

Even though we are on a phasmid forum, in my experiance Pets At Home are really bad for fish! Every single one I have bought from there die within 3-4 days! When I went back for a refund I noticed that on most of the tanks, there fish had diseases! So If you want some fish dont go to PAH.

[Ian]

Well, really not very good press for Pets and Home at all! Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I will keep an eye on how things go at my local, from what I am hearing, no doubt things will be going down hill...

[Brian]

I was in my local Pets at Home at the weekend (only opened 2 weeks ago) and on first glance everything seemed ok but when you looked at the fish tank there were 1 or 2 dying fish in alot of the tanks. I think the problem is they have maybe 50 tanks but they all go through the same filtration system so if one fish has a disease chances are they will all get it. From a distance the tanks really looked good as well. They only had one tank of phasmids, Indian Sticks and these were £5 each of 2 for £8!!!! Their tank setup was also fairly decent. Apart from that all the other furry animals looked good and their enclosures were pretty big. I will keep going back just for a nosey though, see if it goes downhill.
I also wondered if you used to have a chain called Pet City where you live? I think maybe Pets at Home bought them over? They were a nightmare! I remember one day being in there and I overheard one of the members of staff telling a customer a 36"x15"x12" tank would be sufficient for a green iguana for life!!! I couldnt help myself and I said to him "that's interesting considering my green iguana is over 4ft long just now" lol He wasn't impressed but the woman who was going to buy it was grateful. I called the manager later and told him and he said "we take animal care very seriously and I will look into this and call you back". That was about 8 years ago and I am still waiting.............

[Ian]

Can't say I have heard of Pet city, Pet's at home is the only chain I am aware of, I know they are the largest chain of pet stores in the UK as well.
Not really living up to that title though.

[zirliz]

Well in Ireland we don't have those stores well not to my knowledge but I have only seen stick insects for sale here a few times always Indian but they always had lots of food but where very pricey 7e each horribly pricey.
We do have petstores that don't take care of their fish and I've made remarks about the size animals get to like (Bala freshwater sharks) having gotten caught myself size wise that is. The RSPCA here I'm afraid aren't that good in most exotic areas they're fine in Horses, dogs and cats etc, but they'res one store and he keeps his pigeons in appealling conditions and it's been said he pays off the RSPCA officer that visits. Makes you wonder....
Anyway I know I'm off topic so sorry

[Brian]

Can't say I have heard of Pet city, Pet's at home is the only chain I am aware of, I know they are the largest chain of pet stores in the UK as well.
Not really living up to that title though.

I guess Pet City must have been a Scottish chain that were bought out by Pets at Home as up until then I hadn't even heard of the Pets at Home chain.

[Morpheus_UK]

Likewise about the fish <_<

[milo]

hi
I thought i'd drop a quick line to warn you all about the rspca, i'm in the local fish keeping club and last year the rspca came very close to closing down ALL pet shops.The bill got its first reading through the commons with out a hitch and then all the clubs bannded together [when we all woke to what they wanted to do i.e. close all the fish and pet industry down ] and we got a few m.p's on side and we all started to shout and stamp our feet and then the bill got watered down.
I'm not saying don't report bad shops but be careful.

On a happier note I popped into my local shop Penshaw Aquatics & Reptiles and found some thorny stick insects which were in great condition. The shop has a wide variety of reptiles, amphibians & other animals. Might be worth a look.

[Ian]

Oh really Milo? That's not to hot at all. What were RSPCA's reasons for doing that? Seems a little over the top if you ask me..

Also, feel free to create another thread about the penshaw shop, it may give it a little more exposure :)

[milo]

From what i can gather some people pretty high up in the rspca want to close the industry down so they put pressure on the goverment and advised on the new bill and nearly succeeded. Part of the bill was that any fish sold in a shop or public auction would have to be in a container not a bag and with plenty of filtration.
They came very close to closing things down which would have a knock on effect for everyone

[Brian]

definately seems OTT to me. They can't close ALL petshops just because of a few bad seeds................can they? I would doubt it.

[Ian]

My thoughts exactly. Maybe it was just a threat? I wouldn't have thought they would have the power to take such actions anyway without much harder reasoning.

[mercat]

we just bought our first 2 stick insects from our local pets at home in romford
the cage looked good and the sales girl was very helpful.

As for fish i always buy my coldwater fish there and never had a problem.

[Ian]

Well nice to hear a bit of good feedback at last :) Is it a new store mark/deb, or a fairly well established one?

[mercat]

ian its been there for as long as i can remember

[Ian]

An okay, I thought maybe a new store may have meant good standards. But that's good news if the conditions are good in a well established store.

[natonstan]

well the woment at P@H when i got mine was scared to get em out of the tank so i had to do it >_>

[Taz Devil]

I called to the Pets at Home at Parkgate, Rotherham today to find their sticks in a poor condition. The food plant had shrivelled up, so was a couple of days old, it was also just stood in some dry oasis.

In total there were 3 dead sticks, species not known. I brought the condition to the attention of a sales assistant who said she would sort it out. We went back to the store after having a look around the rest of the retail park to find that all they had donw was remove the dead sticks and sprayed the Oasis with water. No fresh food plant in there, just the same dried up, shrivelled privet and bramble. I brought it to the attention of the shop assistant for a second time saying that it was easy enough to provide even the basic of food stuff for them.

I walked out of the store, cut some Ivy from the Ivy growing all around the retail park, walked back into the store, slammed the Ivy on the counter and told the assistant behind the counter that it was as easy as that to feed a stick insect and they should not be allowed to keep them as they do not know how to look after them. Even though they have the same A4 (folded to DL) leaflet right next to the tank that had them in.

I have posted the footage onto YouTube but it isn't the greatest of quality as I wasn't preparing to take footage of anything, so this was taken on my cr@ppy phone.

YouTube - Pets at home Stick Insect Cruelty #1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc9jiiIxBKQ)
In this footage I Track from the largest dead stick over to the shrivelled up plants (the green stuff in the background is plastic) where one is dead on the oasis, I then track back past a dead one on the wooden bark back to the one on the floor. The assistant removed the one on the floor and it only had 1 leg, so not much chance of it having anything to eat without a walking stick to aid it.

I went away and came back 2 hours later taking the next 15 seconds of footage:-
YouTube - Pets at home Stick Insect Cruelty #2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGrPegDYklE)
Nothing had changed much. Sprayed the oasis, in the foreground is the large stick that was stuck on the roof, drinking from the water on the wood chippings on the base of the tank

[Taz Devil]

I have just sent the following email to Pets at Home:-

To whom it may concern,
I am very worried about the conditions your stick insects are being kept in. A few weeks ago a friend of mine went to your Sheffield branch where most of the stick insects there were either dead or close to dieing, the food plants in their enclosure were dry and brittle.

Today (07/06/2008) I called into your Parkgate, Rotherham branch where I was met with the same conditions, 3 dead stick insects, dried up and shrivelled food plants. I brought this to your assistants attention but all that was done was the enclosure sprayed with water. these are stick insects and not plants, they require fresh green leafed food stuff. this can be kept fresher with the simplest of actions, ie. Placed into a jar of water with the top of the jar protected so that insects cannot fall in.

I did help them out by walking out to the front of the store and cutting a few good lengths of Ivy so that at least then insects that were left holding on to life could have something fresh to eat.

I have read on several websites about other people who have had the same experience as I have had so this is not an isolated case.

If you are unable to care for any form of creature in your stores then I would strongly advise you to rethink your strategy for stocking species like these, even though they seem to take the least amount of looking after, it has been proven over and over again that as a company you are unable to meet even their basic needs.

I will be passing my findings on to the relevant authorities along with the video footage I took in store, which you can find on YouTube under the heading of Pets At Home Stick Insect Cruelty #1.

Yours Worriedly
Mr Rob Sorfleet

[stickinsect123]

I say thats a good idea. Hopefully it will stop bad insect stockists like that pets at home and many others being cruel

[natonstan]

Good idea mentioning my experience in my Branch Taz

[Taz Devil]

I will be going back to the parkgate store in rotherham in a week or so, I'll be arming myself with a video camera so that I can get better footage.

Of all the animals in the store, the stick insects were the ones that had the worst conditions. Not even any food for them to eat.

[Ian]

Nice email you sent them right there, will be interesting to hear what they have to say in reply to that...

Shame you didn't video the lady jumping.

[Taz Devil]

Shame you didn't video the lady jumping.
I'll try again and edit it into the original :);)

[natonstan]

Good Luck With the videos

[Sam76]

Pets at home are generally bad with their stick insects:mad:, I have visited a few different stores all over the country and i'd say at least 80% of the ones i have seen have kept their sticks in poor conditions. I keep an eye on my local store in Cleethorpes and they seem to be one of the better ones. Only once have i seen the bramble unfit but it was sorted next time i checked a couple of days later.They also seem to have a young lass employed at this branch that really likes them, I think she has been taking responsibility for them. They are still totally useless on species identification and sexing individuals. They have just got in some TB's (all males) P@H definiately need more training after all they are charging way over the odds for their sticks.
Sam

[Taz Devil]

They were charging £8 for 2, they wouldn't even know if they were male or females. What annoyed me the most with my visit is the fact that I brought it to their attention that there wasn't any food stuff for them to eat and they were starving to death and when I returned a few hours later, the same plants were in the tank, all that had happened was they had sprayed the oasis that the plants were standing in, not even soaking it. There was more water n the floor of the tank, which one of the sticks started to drink up.

I'd have been happier if the leaves had just wilted, but they were dry and brittle. so the sticks were starving to death.

[stickinsect123]

I'll go to my local pets at home soon so I'll update u on wat the sticks there are like

[Taz Devil]

OK I got a reply back from P@H:-

Good afternoon,
I am very sorry that you have had cause for concern regarding the standard of pet care in one of our stores. As a company pet care, along with customer service is one of our top priorities and we are always keen to hear of any instances where this is not the case. We always like to go above and beyond the five freedoms of animal welfare no matter how large or small the pet may be.

I would like to assure you that this issue is being taken very seriously and any action that is deemed necessary will be taken.

Thank you for taking the time to email your concerns,

Kind regards
Steve Belgrau
Customer Service Coordinator

So I hope to go back and see what the difference is in a couple of weeks time. Lets see how much notice they have REALLY taken.

[stickinsect123]

if they havn't that would be extremely annoying

[Taz Devil]

For the RSPCA to get involved you have to phone them with the information.

[natonstan]

I got a feeling there gonna do nothing, Not sure about other stores, but mine ( in Sheffield) has friggen late teens/ early 20 year olds working there and there very unreliable, so maybe there the ones to blame.

Another note, the sticks i got from P@H died like 1 week after i bought them.

[workshy]

Hi, I'm new and have only been a stickie fanatic since last October. However, I went to my local Pets at Home just after I was bitten by the bug (so to speak) and was horrified at the dreadful conditions the poor things were kept in. I bought all their stock and complained at their cruelty. They have now replaced with a larger terrarium and it is always fresh and green. (I go in every week to check). Sometimes they even have some exciting species now!!

Lucie

[natonstan]

Well, after my p@H's indians failed to survive the poor conditions, today i whent in and i noticed they now have larger species, but the food is still dry as a bone and drooping down, They can't look after indians i dred to think what will happen to these species!

[Taz Devil]

I had a phone call from the RSPCA on Friday when I got in from work. The inspector told me that she had been to visit the Parkgate, Rotherham branch of Pets at Home and seh found all the animals, including the stick insects, to be in good condition and that the sticks now had green, fresh food plants in with them. But I will still go back in a few weeks time to make sure that everything is ship shape and Bristol fashion.

[stickinsect123]

I'm checking my pets at home branch today so hopefully the sticks there will be ok

[natonstan]

Yeh... " Hopefully"

[Derek]

Wish I could say the same,,, I have complained to my local Pets at home twice now (to the 18 yr old manager who does not have a clue and seems to care less) Within a week its back to crispy bramble etc..

Today I went in and walked to the counter, with a que behind me I got the mangaer to read their care sheet with me and then explain to me the situation there insects where in .... We will see if it improves...

Thats the Andove Hampshire store

Derek

[stickinsect123]

i went 2day and asked the manager were are the stick insects and he said " We don't sell things like this any more" I looked around and all they had were rabbits, fish etc.
So maybe somefin happened with the rspca

[natonstan]

Hmm, My pets at home stopped selling indians and they said there not stocking anymore, but then they got a diff species... not sure what, its those big brown ones XD

[stickinsect123]

I wonder what there doing. somefin is going on

[Brian]

Somehow I missed the most recent posts here. Great email you sent Taz. Interesting to see if they actually listen. Did you go back to check on them?

[Taz Devil]

I got a reply back from P@H which I posted on the site somewhere (didn't realize how many P@H threads there were so I'm a little lost as to where I have been posting). The reply was on the lines of they take good care of their animals and will look into why thier store has let their animals suffer.

It must have worked because I called the RSPCA and they sent one of their inspectors round, it all seemed OK to the inspector so something has improved. I will be going back in about 2 or 3 weeks from now to see what conditions are like. I'll try and get the works digi camera for this as it has the ability to take video footage as well as still pics.

[natonstan]

Heh, my P@H still fails

[mercat]

went into my local PaH 2 days ago tanks still full up with insects and they were looking good with lots of fresh food and water

[Ian]

Oh, a positive experience! Now that is good to hear.

[natonstan]

Yeh why can't all pets at home stores be like that...

[Brian]

I was in my local Pets @ Home store at the weekend and they no longer stock stick insects.

[stickinsect123]

Ye mine doesn't either

[ashleigh short]

The pets at home in my area is also cr*p, I went up to the till point and asked the girl there if she could open the glass cabinate so I could see the stick insects more clearly and she said THEY WILL GET ME! Well if she is afraid of a couple of 2 inch insects she shouldnt be working in a so called pet shop!

from
Ash from devon

[stickinsect123]

How can u be scared of stick insects! My sister likes them (well kind of)

[Morpheus_UK]

Havent been to my local one in ages, but funny they are all the same, crap condition ect, someone who works there is a six former at my school XD
Cant believe they had peruphasma`s on bramble, laughed when they said" hang on i`ll just put in a bit of food for them" and then got a bone dry twig with a leaf in XD

[stickinsect123]

I went to my local 1 recently and I have to say the animals were in great condition and the staff were extremely helpful!

[_jake_]

Even though we are on a phasmid forum, in my experiance Pets At Home are really bad for fish! Every single one I have bought from there die within 3-4 days! When I went back for a refund I noticed that on most of the tanks, there fish had diseases! So If you want some fish dont go to PAH.

Yes, alot of their stores are bad for fish. They have under experienced staff, which believe everything a 'expert' or their manager tells them. Keeping and breeding fish for a very long time, I know which species can mix ect. But they always stay to there word, when they have the same community of fish that i'm hoping to buy in their display tanks:rolleyes:. Alot of their fish are ill is becuase they are trying to save money, their tanks are connected up to one biological filter. Meaning one fish becomes ill, the whole stock do!.

They are a rubbish shop imho.

Also, RSPCA aren't all there cracked up to be!!. A friend of mine contacted them after a litter of kittens was found in her garden. Rang the RSPCA, but wouldn't take the ginger one becuase the chances of a ginger finding a home is slim. But my friend took the kitten in, after the inspector left!.

Jake.

[Ian]

So the RSCPA are anti ginger?! Come on, gingers aren't that bad :p

But yes I know a lot of people that have had no success at all with the RSPCA, which is a shame because they are the only real place to go with queries like this.

I think with pets at home, they are just a commercial chain rather than a single pet shop, and people working there just don't have the interest that smaller pet shops would do. Then that leads to the livestock being deglected, and things going down hill from there.

[Ambergaze]

I bought my first Et from pets at home when they first started selling stick insects. When we asked the person had to go call someone who would handel them but the set up was fine fresh food and had been sprayed. Since then i havent seen any healthy stick insects in pets at home stores there is never fresh food and often bodies. But iv noticed that less stores are getting them in they seem to have stopped selling them.

[Dozey]

I really wouldn't reccomend people buying anything from a chain like Pets at Home, I prefer to support the local pet shops, they tend to look after the things they sell much better. I found this the case at my local pet shop in Leigh, Manchester where they have pets that are cleaned out lots, there's tonnes of things there like: Tortoise, Turtles, Praying Mantis, Chameleons, Indian Sticks, Lots of fish, rabbits, mice, hermet crabs, and little lizard type things. I've been there a few times looking at the pets, and handing over some of my indian stick insect nymphs. My friend is now working there on saturdays - and she told me how things are, and I'm pleased to know that they get food fresh for sticks once every 3-4 days which is nice to know - and I saw their tank for the stick insect nymphs, they had 2 large containers, one with most of them and the other one with all of the 'crippled' ones that are missing legs, and after further talking to my friend, apparently the injured ones go home with one of the workers every day :) So it's all good!

Support your local pet shop~!! Down with pets at home and their dead fish!!

[Rob.c]

local pet stores are always the best bet as nine time out of ten they have been set up and are run by genuine entusiasts and the shop s often little more than an extension of their hobby that can keep a couple of quid ticking over.

chains and their supermarket style approach and poor wages are usually staffed by people who couldn't really care either way..

on the subject o fish I try and avoid any store these days that uses one central filter system for all water .. I've just never understood really why places d it .. (cheaper I suppose) but it basically means one ill fish i any tank and the whole system is affected.. The best ones have either seperate filters per tank or smaller banks of 6 centralised but isolated from each other.

such a shame about the rspca's attitude towards most things that aren't cuddly and cute and able to draw in more charity donations...